Do it for a fee that reflects the work and the deadline youve been given. this way you can show that you are reliable, and more importantly, not a mug.

Definitely. I personally would impose an hourly rate and incorporate a rush fee.

Anthony Smith said:Do it for a fee that reflects the work and the deadline youve been given. this way you can show that you are reliable, and more importantly, not a mug.

TRIBE said:Definitely. I personally would impose an hourly rate and incorporate a rush fee.

Amazing points/suggestions guys; a rush fee sounds incredibly necessary with this situation.

Regardless, it's always a shame to see something you've put hours into go to waste.

make them pay again man, not your fault they screwed up on the breif

xic said:make them pay again man, not your fault they screwed up on the breif

And it seems like it was probably approved to some degree along the way. Last minute overhauls need to be compensated as such.

Instead of approaching it like, it's their fault and they pay the same rate again, I'd do as other say and tell them it's no problem but there is a flat rush fee of whatever plus what you deem to be your hourly rate. It shows that you are professional and value your time but will do your best to meet their request. As for the rush fee, for all they know, you could be bumping other work for paying clients. It's a hard reality for the band to learn and when they realize they have to pay for work like normal business people, they may opt to keep the original they approved. I would imagine doing album art for bands must be tough because bands rarely want art that reflects who they are but more who they think they are or sound like.

miles to go said:Instead of approaching it like, it's their fault and they pay the same rate again, I'd do as other say and tell them it's no problem but there is a flat rush fee of whatever plus what you deem to be your hourly rate. It shows that you are professional and value your time but will do your best to meet their request. As for the rush fee, for all they know, you could be bumping other work for paying clients. It's a hard reality for the band to learn and when they realize they have to pay for work like normal business people, they may opt to keep the original they approved. I would imagine doing album art for bands must be tough because bands rarely want art that reflects who they are but more who they think they are or sound like.

It actually is their fault if the artwork was approved and paid for and NOW they want the entire front cover to be completely different from the approved artwork and other changes made. They should not have paid the final deposit if they were unsure about the artwork.

It is all fine and dandy to keep clients happy, but you cant let them walk all over you either.

The rush fee is a crucial because there is no way i would do all of that in one day without a fee in place considering all the other work i have also. Charging them for the extra work is also a must in my opinion.

I would not make them pay the same rate, but i would actually recharge them for the front cover (whatever your final total breaks down into that being) and also charge them an hourly fee for the other changes along with the rush fee.

DanielAndHisArt said:

miles to go said:Instead of approaching it like, it's their fault and they pay the same rate again, I'd do as other say and tell them it's no problem but there is a flat rush fee of whatever plus what you deem to be your hourly rate. It shows that you are professional and value your time but will do your best to meet their request. As for the rush fee, for all they know, you could be bumping other work for paying clients. It's a hard reality for the band to learn and when they realize they have to pay for work like normal business people, they may opt to keep the original they approved. I would imagine doing album art for bands must be tough because bands rarely want art that reflects who they are but more who they think they are or sound like.

It actually is their fault if the artwork was approved and paid for and NOW they want the entire front cover to be completely different from the approved artwork and other changes made. They should not have paid the final deposit if they were unsure about the artwork.

It is all fine and dandy to keep clients happy, but you cant let them walk all over you either.

The rush fee is a crucial because there is no way i would do all of that in one day without a fee in place considering all the other work i have also. Charging them for the extra work is also a must in my opinion.

I would not make them pay the same rate, but i would actually recharge them for the front cover (whatever your final total breaks down into that being) and also charge them an hourly fee for the other changes along with the rush fee.

he's just talking about a professional approach, not the reality of the circumstance. you can approach it defensively, from the mindset of "this is all your fault", or from a mindset of being happily willing to do the work for them if they can pay accordingly. it's just a perspective thing. this is huge for me and keeps me from getting stressed.

cmeyers said:

DanielAndHisArt said:

miles to go said:Instead of approaching it like, it's their fault and they pay the same rate again, I'd do as other say and tell them it's no problem but there is a flat rush fee of whatever plus what you deem to be your hourly rate. It shows that you are professional and value your time but will do your best to meet their request. As for the rush fee, for all they know, you could be bumping other work for paying clients. It's a hard reality for the band to learn and when they realize they have to pay for work like normal business people, they may opt to keep the original they approved. I would imagine doing album art for bands must be tough because bands rarely want art that reflects who they are but more who they think they are or sound like.

It actually is their fault if the artwork was approved and paid for and NOW they want the entire front cover to be completely different from the approved artwork and other changes made. They should not have paid the final deposit if they were unsure about the artwork.

It is all fine and dandy to keep clients happy, but you cant let them walk all over you either.

The rush fee is a crucial because there is no way i would do all of that in one day without a fee in place considering all the other work i have also. Charging them for the extra work is also a must in my opinion.

I would not make them pay the same rate, but i would actually recharge them for the front cover (whatever your final total breaks down into that being) and also charge them an hourly fee for the other changes along with the rush fee.

he's just talking about a professional approach, not the reality of the circumstance. you can approach it defensively, from the mindset of "this is all your fault", or from a mindset of being happily willing to do the work for them if they can pay accordingly. it's just a perspective thing. this is huge for me and keeps me from getting stressed.

yeah, I'm just saying handle it professionally and let them know what the rate to do it is and offer to do it at that rate. the rate is determined by him and should be fair for what he values his time at. charging double, adding rush fees and being a jerk is pointless. if he sets a $25/ hr rate or whatever, he can say his rush rate is $35 or whatever he sees fit. it is not the artists fault the band chose not to use it after approval and I'm saying he should be properly compensated but to let them know he will do it for X fee, no problem. bloating the price to prove a point is unprofessional.

I've learned over time that it's much better to be be understanding and state your terms honestly, as opposed to being defensive towards the client. Mainly because it could be more money in your pocket and even leave open the idea of having a return client. It also helps clients get used to the idea of being detailed right off the bat, rather than being a little too vague because that could end up actually costing them more money or leaving them with a finished product they don't actually want.

TRIBE said:I've learned over time that it's much better to be be understanding and state your terms honestly, as opposed to being defensive towards the client. Mainly because it could be more money in your pocket and even leave open the idea of having a return client. It also helps clients get used to the idea of being detailed right off the bat, rather than being a little too vague because that could end up actually costing them more money or leaving them with a finished product they don't actually want.

yep. quick response times stating what you are able to do for what amount keeps clients happy, even if sometimes the answer is "i'm unable to get to this until ___ and will keep you updated." or whatever. clients are way more understanding if you communicate well with your rate, timelines, and progress.

They're cheapskates, so I doubt they'll want to pay you what you deserve. They wanted to pay me next to nothing for one of my designs and claimed that they couldn't afford more since they're an unsigned band. Their music is good, but they need to learn to respect designers.

Many thanks to everyone who's given input. I've only been officially freelancing for a year and a half, so it means a lot to hear words of wisdom from people who've been there, done that, and are also clients themselves. I'm going to take this experience and revamp my business model; seems like I need to be even more detailed about things like rush fees, potentially develop an hourly wage, etc. The artist in me wants to give them a piece of my mind, but Greg and TRIBE are definitely right; it's always best to be professional and reliable.

Tom Philibeck said:They're cheapskates, so I doubt they'll want to pay you what you deserve. They wanted to pay me next to nothing for one of my designs and claimed that they couldn't afford more since they're an unsigned band. Their music is good, but they need to learn to respect designers.

I remember seeing your tee preview on their FB page; shame it didn't work out, especially since it's tee of the day now! Their new material is amazing (I had the privilege to be the first to download it) and unique. Tyler's a great guy, but it seems like the vocalist is trying to run the whole show. He's probably flipped his lid already after hearing my response to their less than 24 hour deadline.

Balefire said:

xic said:make them pay again man, not your fault they screwed up on the breif

And it seems like it was probably approved to some degree along the way. Last minute overhauls need to be compensated as such.

They've been approving it since the project started. Some of the members LITERALLY changed their minds about 7-8 hours ago, even after I got paid and the files were sent. Lots of their fans are very excited about the work I did (the band released a snippet to them via social media), and I'd hate for them to be disappointed when they see that it's completely different then what they expected. I mean, some fans were already discussing tattoo ideas.

Honestly, it's up to you. I've had this happen a few times. If you got paid for the bulk of the work, then they most likely aren't out to screw you...they're just indecisive. If this is a relationship you want to keep good with, I would do the changes, then after they get it printed, etc. professionally talk about any additional fees you want to charge, or maybe just say that this one is on the house and in the future they will know the process...

It's a tough decision, but could be worse

zb said:Honestly, it's up to you. I've had this happen a few times. If you got paid for the bulk of the work, then they most likely aren't out to screw you...they're just indecisive. If this is a relationship you want to keep good with, I would do the changes, then after they get it printed, etc. professionally talk about any additional fees you want to charge, or maybe just say that this one is on the house and in the future they will know the process...

It's a tough decision, but could be worse

Very true zb. I know they're great guys, but it seems a couple members are insanely indecisive. I would love to discuss the process and charges for future reference, but I have yet to hear a reply from them.

OptimisticDesigns said:

zb said:Honestly, it's up to you. I've had this happen a few times. If you got paid for the bulk of the work, then they most likely aren't out to screw you...they're just indecisive. If this is a relationship you want to keep good with, I would do the changes, then after they get it printed, etc. professionally talk about any additional fees you want to charge, or maybe just say that this one is on the house and in the future they will know the process...

It's a tough decision, but could be worse

Very true zb. I know they're great guys, but it seems a couple members are insanely indecisive. I would love to discuss the process and charges for future reference, but I have yet to hear a reply from them.

Well that kind of explains to you just how important that "rush" was. As others have stated, be respectful and as responsive to their needs as you can be, but ultimately, last minute rush services need to be charged as such. In any case it sounds like you handled this professionally, cheers to that!

At the day job for rush jobs we typically charge a 50% rush fee, for zero hour overhauls we charge them a bit more depending on the company. We mainly work with big companies (L'oreal, Estee, Tom Ford, Ect.)so the invoices can get pretty crazy.

Matt Borchert said:

OptimisticDesigns said:

zb said:Honestly, it's up to you. I've had this happen a few times. If you got paid for the bulk of the work, then they most likely aren't out to screw you...they're just indecisive. If this is a relationship you want to keep good with, I would do the changes, then after they get it printed, etc. professionally talk about any additional fees you want to charge, or maybe just say that this one is on the house and in the future they will know the process...

It's a tough decision, but could be worse

Very true zb. I know they're great guys, but it seems a couple members are insanely indecisive. I would love to discuss the process and charges for future reference, but I have yet to hear a reply from them.

Well that kind of explains to you just how important that "rush" was. As others have stated, be respectful and as responsive to their needs as you can be, but ultimately, last minute rush services need to be charged as such. In any case it sounds like you handled this professionally, cheers to that!

Much appreciated Matt. I feel like it's these experiences that one learns from and adapts to future commissions. Really appreciate all the replies from everyone!

Pablo said:At the day job for rush jobs we typically charge a 50% rush fee, for zero hour overhauls we charge them a bit more depending on the company. We mainly work with big companies (L'oreal, Estee, Tom Ford, Ect.)so the invoices can get pretty crazy.

I'm sure they have a little bit more jiggle room (in terms of finances), than your average unsigned band, but at least the process of charging rush/overhaul fees seems to stay pretty linear with any client; great to know Pablo.

This is a very surreal post for me seeing as the band is in my local scene haha

Tom Philibeck said:They're cheapskates, so I doubt they'll want to pay you what you deserve. They wanted to pay me next to nothing for one of my designs and claimed that they couldn't afford more since they're an unsigned band. Their music is good, but they need to learn to respect designers.

This is not how I remember it.

what band ae you guys actually talking about?

More than happy to announce that things worked out peachy-keen. Appreciate all the advice everyone.

Jupit said:what band ae you guys actually talking about?

http://www.facebook.com/kingmakeril
Definitely see a bright future for these guys.

I was hoping it was Roseld. haha.

Denimous Snake said:I was hoping it was Roseld. haha.

Currently working with those guys as well. Have you worked with them before?

OptimisticDesigns said:

Denimous Snake said:I was hoping it was Roseld. haha.

Currently working with those guys as well. Have you worked with them before?

My guitarist is friends with them and I grew up with them. They are just really full of themselves, minus Jon (not sure if he's the one you're talking to).

But I offered to do their stuff (Logo, CD artwork (basically the only designing I get hired for), shirt designs, etc. for cheap (almost free) because I was in a band with two of their members. One of them just moved, so I'm not sure what their plans are. haha.

They also kept calling a printing place where I worked, and were like, oh let's order, we're ready to order I fixed all their artwork up for them and they never ordered. So I just hope you got paid already. haha.